Since its founding in 1998, Unison Capital, Inc. has pursued investments in mid-sized companies with an open and broad vision, aiming for long-term profitability. Guided by their founding principle, "By working together towards a common goal, growth is assured," they strive for the realization of "Unison: playing the same melody." Even after 20 years, they remain committed to supporting the growth and value enhancement of their portfolio companies and society through their investment activities.

Since 2023, Unison Capital has introduced Interbeing Inc.'s services, including 1-on-1 dialogues with monks, management training, and lectures for executives and senior management. We spoke with Mr. Tatsuo Kawasaki, a founding member and CEO of Unison Capital, about the background, implementation process, challenges, and future expectations of incorporating Interbeing Inc.

Even within the same organization, and even working towards the same goal, each person's interpretations and approaches can differ. Amidst the blending of diverse lives, we wondered, "What if we included a monk in our conversation?" By reinterpreting me and us through different words and perspectives, the journey of connections becomes visible. When each voice emerges in its own tone, a unison suited to the present moment may unfold.

AI, which is structured based on language models, generates responses by mediating meaning and logic. While AI excels at categorizing and determining correctness—providing stable and clear distinctions—this is only one aspect of our world. By reconsidering the definition of the word person as the one who has a voice, we can better engage richly and creatively with each other and with AI. To do so, we must return to our primal nature, utilizing our physicality and sensibilities to their fullest. The Monks × AI concept focuses on the crucial element of voices and will continue to explore this in the future.

Matsumoto: It is great to talk with you today.

If I recall correctly, we first met two years ago at the 2022 Davos Conference (World Economic Forum). I am very grateful that our initial connection has since developed into a relationship between our companies. How did you perceive the presence of a Japanese monk at an event like the Davos Conference?

Tatsuo Kawasaki: The Davos Conference attracts a wide range of leaders from around the world. However, since it takes place in Europe, it's natural that the focus and participants are often Europe-centric. As a result, Japan's presence tends to be relatively low. Every time I attend, I think it would be great if Japan could stand out more positively in various ways. However, it's not something that can be achieved just by raising our hands, so I always found it quite challenging.When I saw a monk in traditional attire walking around the event, it caught my attention. From his appearance, I could tell he wasn't a Chinese monk, and if he were a Thai monk, his robe would be orange. For those who can distinguish these subtleties, it immediately says Japan without any need for words. I found that fascinating.

Japan has a broader perspective on religion compared to the monotheistic cultures of America and Europe. In a positive sense, it means there's a greater degree of freedom, often perceived as something with cultural breadth or as a kind of life philosophy. This is closely tied to the idea of showcasing Japanese culture. In that sense, I found it interesting that a monk was present at the event. I’m not sure how intentionally the organizers invited spiritual leaders, but since I wasn’t aware that religious leaders were participating, I thought it was fascinating and quite niche to see such a figure there.

Different Words, Different Perspectives: What Happens When We Introduce Something Different?

Matsumoto: In gatherings of business professionals, people tend to act and speak within the cultural norms of the business world. They behave in ways that are typical of businesspersons or leaders. In such settings, communities, or organizations, what do you think about having a monk present, engaging in dialogue and discussions? I imagine there might have been an interest in seeing "what would happen if we included a monk," which led to the incorporation of a monk in your company. Was there any particular thought or expectation behind this decision?

Kawasaki: As you mentioned, the initial spark was the curiosity of "what would happen if we injected something a little different?". In business, we often focus on examining organizational structures based on internal hierarchies or strategizing on how to approach new markets. In other words, the topics of conversation are generally predefined and follow a certain pattern. However, when having one-on-one dialogues with you, Mr. Matsumoto, you bring various perspectives to the table. Primarily, the discussions revolve around the question, "How can we improve our organization?" while incorporating the viewpoint of a monk with a business mind. The conversation then follows with the "individual perspective": how each person can bring out their diverse qualities and fully utilize their abilities. I thought this approach could lead to interesting insights. Unlike the typical scenario of a consultant for organizational improvement, having a monk in the company would evoke unique and positive reactions. It seemed like an intriguing and beneficial experiment.

Even when aiming for the same goal, each person resonates with their own unique voice.

Matsumoto: When thinking about the management and organization of your company, have you ever felt the need to invigorate things by introducing something different? Did you sense any challenges or issues that needed addressing?

Kawasaki: It may not be a sense of crisis, but having managed the company for a long time, I often take it for granted that Unison Capital today is much like it was over 20 years ago when we started. On the other hand, we have people who joined last year and others who joined three years ago. This means that while we are all in the same place, probably looking at the same goals, everyone carries different experiences and expectations. So, I can guess there are quite a few misunderstandings, differences in opinions, and disparities in what is understood. In fact, I can assure you that these issues do exist. When you accumulate these differences, you might need something that can help predict potential problems. This doesn’t mean actively looking for problems, but there are unspoken feelings and thoughts that, if pushed aside, remain invisible and unheard. While this might be fine for some, it can lead to unhealthy situations. In this context, the idea of "uncovering hidden issues by analyzing spoken words and their tones" seemed like a valuable approach to me.

Matsumoto: It's about the voice. Each of us has a voice, and the word "person" originates from "persona," which means "the one who has a voice." This original meaning emphasizes the importance of individuality. In organizations, individuality can sometimes get overlooked. Our goal is to improve the openness of the organization to help bring out each person's individuality. In addition, it's not just about the organization's openness; sometimes, we also lose track of our own voice. I aim to help each person find and express their own voice. Therefore, I am pleased that you have expectations for this approach.

Matsumoto: How many people are currently in your company?

Kawasaki: Including part-time employees, we have around 50 to 60 people.

Matsumoto: That's slightly more than a single class in a typical elementary school. It's a size where you can see everyone's faces, so it seems unlikely that there are people who haven't spoken to each other. Yet, even in a group of this size, where voices should reach each other, there's still a sense that some voices aren't being heard, isn't there?

Kawasaki: If there were a large hall where everyone gathered and sat facing each other, I don't think we would have this sense. However, in reality, we're not physically next to each other, and not everyone is in the office at the same time. The tasks we're working on are also varied, so it's not easy for natural communication to occur between one person and the other 49. Reflecting on our daily activities, it's become common that there are quite a few people with whom we neither speak nor make eye contact.

What are the teachings brought by a monk liberated from religious confines

Matsumoto: Given this background, you reached out to me. Overseas, the term monk is often associated more with Zen masters or practitioners rather than being strictly seen as religious. On the other hand, in Japan, there is a unique perception of monks as people in temples or Buddhists. Therefore, even if you initially aimed to introduce an unconventional element into an organization, there might have been significant hurdles to actually incorporating a monk. How was it in reality?

Kawasaki: That's right. In hindsight, this was clear evidence that voices weren't being heard or seen. As you mentioned, there was a completely divided reaction within the company regarding this religious aspect. Some appreciated the neutrality of being able to talk to someone neutral from a business perspective, while others felt a strong sense of discomfort with the introduction from a religious viewpoint. When I think about it, discussing religion is not something we typically do in our company. Although it didn't turn into a major debate, I found the range of reactions from the people in the company to be much wider than I had expected.

Matsumoto: In reality, I'm not talking about Buddhism as a religion, but rather, the strength and significance of being a monk in these initiatives lie in what I call the power of teaching. This term might be easily misunderstood, but teaching in this context refers to how, in a temple, we link Buddhism—that is, the philosophy of Buddha—to the context of people living today. It's about acting as a translator or interpreter.

So, what do we aim to teach in a company? It's the corporate philosophy, purpose, and values. Even though everyone works for the same company and should be aligned with the same philosophy, it often becomes just a decoration, like a scroll or an ornament, disconnected from daily work and not part of the employees' consciousness. Our goal is to bridge that gap. We want employees to reflect on why they are investing their precious and limited time in this company and to provide opportunities for them to reconsider how the meaning of working here aligns with the meaning of their own lives.

Therefore, I don't bring up Buddhism as a religion or its doctrines. Yet, the fact that I am dressed as a monk still presents some challenges. I am aware of that difficulty myself.

Kawasaki: In that sense, some people feel more comfortable with typical organizational improvement projects where individuals are grouped and analyzed based on their personalities and tendencies with a "You are this type of person, so..." approach. They find reassurance in being explained within a predefined framework that meets certain expectations. For me, this was a quite interesting discovery.

Reframing in Different Languages: One-on-One Sessions for Executives

Matsumoto: At Unison Capital, I have had the opportunity to speak one-on-one with managers and partners, and occasionally, I have had the chance to talk with you, Mr. Kawasaki. From your position as an executive, I assume that you engage in conversations with a wide range of people from various fields. What was the significance or value you found in regularly setting aside time to meet with a monk like myself?

Kawasaki: Yes, one reason is that when I listen to you, the words and language you use are straightforward and easy to understand, yet they come from a slightly different angle. It’s refreshing to realize, "Oh, you can categorize and organize things that way," or "That's an interesting perspective to have." It brings a new sense of insight.

This might slightly deviate from Interbeing Inc.'s service of scientifically analyzing the voices of organizations and groups. However, I wondered if focusing on individuals rather than groups might also yield positive effects and valuable methodologies. That's why I consulted with you.

As I mentioned earlier, some people might find it easier to respond when they fit into a well-defined framework. Conversely, if there is no motivation to "want to listen," the results may not be as effective.

Matsumoto: So, you're starting with a sample size of one, yourself. From a different angle or in a different language, so to speak. It might be difficult to articulate exactly "how it differs," but if you had to, what kinds of differences do you notice?

Kawasaki: In a previous conversation, you mentioned, "Why not try something that will surprise everyone around you?" While this statement alone might not convey the full context of our discussion, it really made me think. The words are simple, and anyone could understand the suggestion if someone else had said it. However, the way you framed it was particularly insightful and impactful to me.

Then, you described our organization as a "noble hunting club," and I nodded, "Ah, yes, it is." That kind of summary would never come from the context of a typical organizational improvement program with its predefined frameworks. That's where I found something intriguing. Even if the underlying point is the same, the words used to explain it can make a big difference. Instead of saying, "There is a hierarchy in the organization," you chose not to put it that way. It's about finding words that deeply resonate, I suppose.

The Potential of Interbeing Programs in “Buddhism × Science”

Matsumoto: While managing your own organization, Unison Capital, you also engage hands-on with various organizations and clients, often diving deeply into corporate revitalization. Considering the potential of an unconventional approach, such as introducing a service with monks that doesn’t fit typical frameworks, what kinds of organizations do you think might benefit from such a method?

When it comes to corporate revitalization, I assume you often encounter organizations at their absolute limits. Using a medical analogy, after exhausting standard treatments, you’re left dealing with cases where recovery still seems out of reach. From your perspective, do you see potential in using a holistic approach, akin to Eastern medicine, in such situations?

Kawasaki: It may not be the only solution, but it is certainly a unique approach. It depends on the context. If there is someone within the organization who aims to lead such initiatives, then it could be a viable option.

Kawasaki: Regarding the contradictory reactions in our company that I mentioned earlier, similar situations can occur in any organization. I don't think our company is unique in that sense; it’s just the way things are. On the other hand, I believe there are organizations where this approach could work effectively. Analyzing voices can be a powerful tool to visualize and uncover various elements. This approach could be especially impactful in more complex organizations with 150 to 200 people, rather than just 50. Gathering data from a larger number of samples provides insights beyond the subjective views of a few leaders.

Unlocking the Future of Humanity Through the Physicality We Retain

Matsumoto: We are currently engaged in an exciting initiative to use our voice emotion analysis with Olympic athletes. The coach of the Japanese national volleyball team, often referred to as a charismatic coach, expressed a strong desire to implement this with his team. Recently, our data scientist, Ms. Onari, attended their training camp.

The athletes regularly vocalize or call out during practice, and a charismatic coach can assess their condition through their voices. He reflects on how to train and enhance each athlete's skills and mental state, implementing various strategies and providing feedback to create a continuous improvement loop. The idea was to incorporate voice emotion analysis into this process.

Recently, the topic of "parole and écriture" came up in our company. This is a discussion about language by the French postmodern philosopher Jacques Derrida. He posits that there are two types of language: "parole," which refers to spoken and heard words, and "écriture," which refers to written and read text. Derrida's argument is that in modern times, "écriture" has been encroaching on "parole." This phenomenon reaches its extreme in large language models, which consume vast amounts of text to make sense of things. While this process is based on the idea of "écriture," language itself never originates from "écriture"; it is always rooted in "parole," and writing may or may not follow. In a sense, even animals possess "parole." There is great potential and significance, especially in this recent era, in something akin to the innate voice of animals before we became human. Sports exemplify a world where communication occurs through this innate animalistic spontaneity, as do martial arts. By delving deeper into these areas, we might discover intriguing possibilities in the evolving relationship between AI and humans. This is something we are currently exploring.

Kawasaki: Sports is an interesting field because, while it shares similarities with the profit-driven world of business, it is fundamentally different. It's not just about generating revenue.

Matsumoto: As we move into an era where many jobs and professions are said to be taken over by AI, what will remain are the essential interpersonal roles. David Graeber discusses how, in a world where AI replaces "bullshit jobs," the future lies in roles where innate voices and presence are key. We are placing our confidence in this assertion. Let AI handle the world of "écriture." Instead, the human realm will remain in the physical aspects, including our voices.

Kawasaki: So, there's no story about future humans losing their mouths because they use telepathy, right?

Matsumoto: Telepathy is about intention, isn't it? It's about exchanging things that can't be verbalized. The shouts and calls in volleyball aren't about conveying specific meanings but are more like interactions between animals. Haven't we been overly focused on meaning? Our left brains have become too dominant.

Kawasaki: Are we overthinking it?

Matsumoto: Especially for those constantly engaged in office work, doing only that likely leads to burnout or feeling stuck.

Kawasaki: I see.

Matsumoto: When considering well-being, I believe there's something important in this area that we should explore further. I look forward to sharing our findings with you in the future.