A Study Session：Learning About Sangyo-so

-*Note: Sangyo-so (産業僧) refers to a monk akin to a counselor or advisor, offering guidance and support in a workplace setting.

Interbeing Inc. offers one-on-one dialogue services between company employees and monks(Sangyo-so). While a Sangyo-I (産業医: occupational physician) attends to the health needs of employees, a Sangyo-so (産業僧: occupational monk) addresses their various life challenges, helping to enhance overall well-being through daily habits and lifestyle guidance.

The dialogue sessions between Sangyo-so and company employees, known as Sangyo-so Dialogue, extend beyond individual interactions. To create a better work environment, the monks, along with the data science and operations teams, collaborate, share information, and engage in discussions. To gain insights into the unique perspectives and considerations that monks bring to these dialogues in their role as Sangyo-so, we have organized a "Study Session to Learn About Sangyo-so."

In the first seminar of our study session series, we invited Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo, a monk who has been with us as a Sangyo-so since last year, to give a presentation.

Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo is a Japanese monk who was ordained in Thailand. Currently, he travels between Japan and Thailand, actively conducting Dharma talks via Zoom, leading meditation sessions, and offering private consultations. He shared his thoughts on how he perceives the role of a Sangyo-so, a new way for monks to serve in the workplace.

Study Session with Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo: What Does the Role of Sangyo-so Mean to Him? Lecture by Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo

      Table of Contents

  1.What Does the Sangyo-so Mean to Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo?

  2.Reflecting on the Role of Sangyo-so Through Buddhist Teachings

  3.A Message from Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo

What Does the Sangyo-so Mean to Rev. Phra Yuki Naratevo?

Today, I would like to share my reflections on the theme of "Sangyo-so Dialogue: Engaging with a Sangyo-so." Drawing on my six months of experience as a Sangyo-so, I will discuss my mindfulness during these dialogues, the feelings I’ve encountered, and my understanding of the role of a Sangyo-so in the context of Buddhist teachings.

In my personal practice, I have conducted individual consultations with 400-500 people annually. Many of those who come to see me do so voluntarily, bringing their own troubles and suffering. They seek advice, insights, or want to learn meditation techniques. My focus during these dialogues is on conveying Buddhist teachings and practices to address their needs and help resolve their issues. This could be described as offering 抜苦与楽(taking away suffering and conferring peace).

As a Sangyo-so, there are significant differences compared to individual consultations, ranging from my mindset during the conversations to the topics discussed and the follow-up after the dialogues. Through my work as a Sangyo-so, I have had the opportunity to meet new people, particularly those who do not have a specific interest in or familiarity with Buddhism. In these interactions, I learn diverse living wisdom – what I call dynamic wisdom – which differs from the wisdom gained through meditation and self-reflection.

While I usually work alone, at Interbeing Inc., I engage continuously with a team. I also have new opportunities, such as presenting to the team, like in this study session. These experiences offer me new insights and learning opportunities, making the role of a Sangyo-so a valuable practice in its own right.

Reflecting on the Role of Sangyo-so through Buddhist Teachings

In Buddhism, there is a teaching called Kai-ji-go-nyū (開示悟入), which outlines the sequence in which a teacher guides and supports individuals. This sequence, known as the Four Methods of Growth (四増長法), corresponds to the process of developing wisdom in practitioners, particularly within the context of Sangyo-so dialogue, where practitioners refer to participants engaging in the dialogue . These methods are outlined below (see table). When supporting others, we start by creating an open and trusting environment. The teacher, based on empathy for the practitioners, explains the mechanism of suffering, helping them to understand it. Only after these steps can practitioners take appropriate actions towards liberating themselves from suffering.

I believe the role of a Sangyo-so is to engage in dialogue with company employees, exploring together through the process of [building mutual trust – deepening self-understanding – finding solutions – moving towards action].

The teaching of 開示悟入(Kai-ji-go-nyū)

From Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo’s Presentation Materials

When I first began engaging in dialogues as a Sangyo-so, I often found myself mistakenly skipping the sequence of Kai-ji-go-nyū and reflecting on my actions afterward. In the context of Sangyo-so dialogues, I particularly feel the importance of Kai(開), which corresponds to active listening and empathy. Unlike individual consultations, where a certain level of trust has already been established, most people I speak with do not know me as a monk. One unique aspect of Sangyo-so dialogue is that it often involves encounters that occur regardless of the individual's initial intentions. Through these dialogues, many changes occur, leading to numerous insights and learnings.

In Sangyo-so dialogues, many people initially say, "What should I talk about?" or "I don't have any particular concerns." However, as the conversation progresses, various forms of suffering often emerge. Topics related to health, family, workplace relationships, and interactions with others can surface. As we talk, individuals often begin to recognize and become aware of these issues themselves. This self-awareness of their suffering is what leads to new perspectives and possibilities.

The crucial next step is the 入(nyū) in 開示悟入(Kai-ji-go-nyū), which refers to 法随法行:acting in accordance with the Dharma. This involves putting into action what has been learned through self-understanding and practicing it to achieve tangible results. By taking action and witnessing the outcomes, individuals enhance their sense of awareness and conviction, ultimately building greater confidence in their lives.

I have been guiding meditation for many years, and I find that the key points in dialogue closely align with the essence of meditation practice. Meditation helps us refine our responses to our own minds, and when we engage in dialogue with others, approaching them with the same mindfulness can evoke a state of awareness similar to that experienced during meditation. This transformative process can be understood through the concept of the Five Powers(五力) and their functions.

The Five Powers (五力: 信・勤・念・定・慧) and their functions.

From Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo’s Presentation Materials

The first essential element is Trust (信), one of the Five Powers (五力). It starts with building a trusting relationship between myself, as a Sangyo-so, and a participant in a dialogue. This trust directly connects to a broader sense of trust in the world. In other words, it involves creating a state of psychological safety. An accepting atmosphere is fostered to alleviate concerns such as, "Will I be seen as ignorant or incompetent?" "Am I bothering anyone?" or "Will I be perceived as negative?" The focus is on creating an environment where these anxieties do not arise.

In a safe environment, individuals start to share their experiences, which helps them recognize their own patterns. Throughout this process, they may also become aware of suffering they hadn’t previously noticed. This involves cultivating the ability to step back from the thoughts, beliefs, ideologies, and even physical actions that we often become entrenched in, enabling a more objective perspective. This is similar to adopting a meta-cognitive viewpoint.

Rather than merely drifting through life, confined by a particular mindset, I encourage individuals to become aware of their current circumstances and to move forward with the wisdom that leads to more fulfilling lives. While life can often be filled with suffering, the Four Noble Truths (四聖諦) taught by the Buddha illustrate that overcoming this suffering is indeed possible. These truths serve as enduring principles throughout our lives.

The Four Noble Truths (四聖諦)

From Rev. Phra Yuki’s Presentation Materials

The teachings of the Four Noble Truths(四聖諦) categorize suffering into four stages: Dukkha (苦諦), Samudaya (集諦), Nirodha (滅諦), and Magga (道諦). These stages illustrate the causal relationships involved in recognizing and liberating ourselves from suffering. Buddha clearly acknowledges suffering (Dukkha), identifies its causes (Samudaya), demonstrates that liberation from suffering is indeed possible (Nirodha), and outlines the path to resolving suffering (Magga). When we comprehensively understand these interconnections, our experiences of suffering can transform into wisdom.

By reflecting on past suffering, individuals can discover their own challenges, which, in turn, can lead to improvements in their interpersonal relationships. When their inherent strengths are realized, it enhances their performance in the surrounding environment, allowing them to contribute meaningfully to the organization. Understanding suffering opens up new perspectives. To guide individuals toward this, Buddhism offers a detailed methodology known as the Noble Eightfold Path(八正道). 

The path of Buddhism offers a gradual progression, guiding us from our everyday habits to a deeper understanding and practice of the Dharma. This journey requires not only adherence to established principles but also a willingness to embrace creative expressions in our approach. In my dialogues as a Sangyo-so, I aspire to convey the teachings of the Dharma in a way that resonates with each individual's unique circumstances and developmental stage. It is my hope that these teachings will be accessible and meaningful to all, fostering personal growth and transformation.

Message from Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo in his role as a Sangyo-so

I would be delighted if the employees who participate in dialogue could not only face their own suffering but also develop compassion for others, including their family members and colleagues. By recognizing the support they receive from those around them, they can cultivate a genuine sense of gratitude, realizing, "I am always being helped; I am supported." Moreover, if this awareness encourages them to take the initiative in easing the suffering of themselves and others—working together towards shared happiness—that would be truly wonderful.

I hope that not only will employees who engage in Sangyo-so dialogue make progress in alleviating their own suffering and that of others, but that the companies and organizations that adopt this practice can also serve as models of excellence, positively impacting both Japanese society and the world. It would bring me immense joy if this initiative leads to a rediscovery of the value of monks and Buddhist teachings. I view my dialogues as a form of Buddhist practice, and I look forward to continuing these conversations with many individuals and organizations, nurturing wisdom and compassion along the way.

I may not have genuinely cared about people in the past; I often found myself in a role focused on conveying teachings. However, through my dialogues with employees, I’ve developed a deeper connection with each individual. I see this shift as one of the many benefits of my work as a Sangyo-so.

In closing, my dialogues as a Sangyo-so have led me to a profound realization: even without any prior connection to Buddhism—and without discussing it directly—simply listening to others can help alleviate their suffering and bring them peace. This experience has reaffirmed my understanding that this principle aligns with the teachings of the Buddha. It shows that, regardless of one’s connection to Buddhism, anyone can contribute to alleviating suffering and fostering peace through everyday conversations. If you know someone who is struggling, I encourage you to start by simply listening.

Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo

Speaker Biography

Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo was born in 1962 in Saitama Prefecture, Japan. He graduated from Sophia University with a degree in Philosophy and became deeply involved in volunteer work and NGO activities during his university years. He later pursued studies in development issues at Chulalongkorn University in Thailand. In 1988, he ordained as a monk under the renowned meditation teacher and development monk, Rev. Luang Por Khamkhian. Since then, he has dedicated himself to the dual pursuit of material and spiritual happiness for villagers through his work as a development monk.

Recently, Rev. Phra Yuki Naradevo has relocated his activities to Japan, where he actively hosts lectures at universities and temples and leads meditation sessions organized by volunteers. He places great importance on personal consultations, having provided mental care to over 10,000 individuals and continuously sharing wisdom to alleviate suffering and foster peace.

He is also the author of several books, including Buddhist Management for Work Effectiveness, The Brain and Meditation, and Isn't It Okay Not to Be Enlightened?, among others.

For more information, you can visit his official blog at Yoki En Net and follow him on Twitter at @phrayuki.